[MountianKraft]

I'm about to embark on making several hundred coasters from hardwood.. They want their logo engraved in them...

The coasters will be 3/8" thick.. The idea is that I will pre-finish them, apply contact paper to them (like that on acrylic), carve/engrave them, spray dark brown or black paint, then peel the paper off and clear coat them... finally adding three cork dots on the bottom of each...

Each coaster will be 3.5" round.. So the Logo will be approximately 2.75-3" wide

This is the logo they sent me..

http://www.mountaincraftworks.com/pix/bearcreeklogo.jpg

I am going to make some changes with their blessings, including changing the shape of the mountain range to match lassen range, and using one of these bear vector images to be purchased from Vector Art.com.. They are interested in 52824 and 33543, especially the 543 one...

http://www.mountaincraftworks.com/pix/bearimages.jpg

Originally, I was going to V carve them, but I'm not sure that would be best due to the thickness of the coasters, and moisture collection.. So I was thinking about engraving them by creating a 'flat depression' where the black parts are, leaving the white areas untouched.. maybe 1/32-1/16" deep..

I was looking at getting one of the Amana In-groove bits for this.. But I'm not sure if that is necessary or which blade to buy.. I'd kinda like to save some money and put it towards Cut 3D and some vector Art 3D files...

Bits I currently have that might be useful are a 1/8" single flute strait bit, a 3/16" double flute strait bit, a 1/4" two flute mortising bit, a couple 1/4" upspirals, a 90 degree carbide tipped V bit, a 60 degree Amana insert bit V bit, a MCHS 45 degree carbide tipped V bit, a couple 1/8" bull nose bits, etc..

If there's a less expensive alternative to the In-Groove bit that would be great...

Basically I need suggestions.. they need some of them (hoping to get 100 made) by weekend after next, so I need to order a bit as soon as possible seeing as it will take a few days to ship...

Also looking for comments on my 'methods' and suggestions for finish materials... Will be making these out of sapele, poplar, and alder...

Thanks,
Mark

[ger21]

Depending on what you actually end up with for artwork, I'd either V-Carve with a 45° or 60° bit, or use a 1/32" or maybe 1/16" bit to pocket it.


As for finishing, I'd spray 2 coats of laquer, engrave, then paint, and sand on my 6x48 sander to remove excess paint, and laquer again. Although you probably need polyurethane or varnish for coasters.

I wouldn't buy the In-groove bit unless you're just cutting outlines.

And if you're buying models from Vector Art 3D, don't buy Cut3D. Use Vector Art's free CAM software, which is a version of Cut3D that only works with their models.

[louieatienza]

Some of the detail might be too fine for even a 1/16" bit. To make these go at a reasonable clip, I'd select v-carve, set the flat depth to like .080" or so, using a .020" 30 degree engraving bit for your v-bit (you can set this up in VCarve Pro) and use a .125" bit as a flat area clearance tool. Then like Gerry said, you can spay your finish first, then engrave, sand, paint fill and re-spray.

Realistically, this job might be easier and faster done on a cnc laser (hehehe)...

For the sealer (pre-cutting) coat, I'd be more inclined to use shellac if possible; it dries a lot faster, not as harmful as lacquer, and you can spray poly over shellac. It will also build up faster than lacquer, which you'll need to fill the pores on the wood where lacquer would just "float" over the surface.

[Mountaincraft]

or use a 1/32" or maybe 1/16" bit to pocket it.

Where do I find such a beast?

As for finishing, I'd spray 2 coats of laquer, engrave, then paint, and sand on my 6x48 sander to remove excess paint,

I'll be right over!

and laquer again. Although you probably need polyurethane or varnish for coasters.

I wouldn't buy the In-groove bit unless you're just cutting outlines.

Well that saves me some money!

And if you're buying models from Vector Art 3D, don't buy Cut3D. Use Vector Art's free CAM software, which is a version of Cut3D that only works with their models.

Yeah I already have that Machinist 3D app.. There's a lot I can use Cut 3D for.. But the reason I want it now, is so I can buy the Vector Art 3D models in STL format, and then use Cinema 4D to edit/combine them with other 3D elements and export them in DXF format so that Cut 3D can generate the tool paths...

I need to get the Vector Art files soon, but I can't use them if I order in STL unless I have Cut 3D.. and if I order them in V3M format, I'm stuck with them as is... no further editing or combining..

[Mountaincraft]

Some of the detail might be too fine for even a 1/16" bit. To make these go at a reasonable clip, I'd select v-carve, set the flat depth to like .080" or so, using a .020" 30 degree engraving bit for your v-bit (you can set this up in VCarve Pro) and use a .125" bit as a flat area clearance tool. Then like Gerry said, you can spay your finish first, then engrave, sand, paint fill and re-spray.

So I would do a 'pocket' with the 1/8" bit, and then follow with a profile with the V Bit?

Realistically, this job might be easier and faster done on a cnc laser (hehehe)...

Do they sell those at CNC Router parts?

For the sealer (pre-cutting) coat, I'd be more inclined to use shellac if possible; it dries a lot faster, not as harmful as lacquer, and you can spray poly over shellac. It will also build up faster than lacquer, which you'll need to fill the pores on the wood where lacquer would just "float" over the surface.

Oil based poly, or can water based poly be used over shellac?

Does Shellac color the wood? I haven't used the stuff since probably 7th grade... I remember it being kinda yellow in color (not necessarily a bad thing)

I was also thinking about marine spar thane... But I'm really ignorant about finishes.. I have a couple 'standards' I've used in construction over the years, and you kinda get in a habit, and don't stray much..

I have a lot of linseed oil (about 6 gallons), and was thinking of trying some of that on a few of them, but was afraid the mask wouldn't adhere well.. but maybe there's something I could coat over the linseed oil.. It has kind of a nice color to it..

But maybe that's a crazy idea...

[Mountaincraft]

For some reason, I had it in my mind, that Cut 3D was $150.. But I just went to buy it and it's twice that..

Oh well.. That idea is out.. for quite a 'long' while....

[ger21]

MeshCAM is $175, I think MeshCAM - CNC Software - CAD/CAM Software

[Mountaincraft]

That's an interesting idea... Only downside is that it doesn't have preview... That's an extra $150..

However, I like the idea that it has an ability to make 'holders' for flipping the work...

I also like the fact that it has a 30 day full use demo...

That gives me a couple options.. including using it as leverage to see if I can get some of the files I need thrown in if I buy Cut 3D.... Because at that price, it's now files 'or' app.. not both....

If they won't go for that, I guess I can buy the files, and then use the demo of mesh cam for 30 days and re-evaluate my options at the end of that time... Who knows, I may fall in love with Mesh Cam...

[Mountaincraft]

I just realized, except for the true 3D stuff, I can import the Mesh Cam generated toolpaths into V Carve (I think) and preview them there... Which if true, makes it that much more attractive now...

Anyone out there use this app that can give their impressions of it.. Pros/cons.. like/dislike.. problems, etc.?
:cheers:

[ger21]

I just realized, except for the true 3D stuff, I can import the Mesh Cam generated toolpaths into V Carve (I think) and preview them there... Which if true, makes it that much more attractive now...

I don't think you can do that, but I'm not 100% positive.

[Mountaincraft]

I don't think you can do that, but I'm not 100% positive.

Is V Carve going to know which app G Code is generated in? Because that's how 3d Machinist works... You import the V3M file, generate the toolpath, and then the tool path can be imported into V CArve.. Same with Cut 3D.. You import the tool path..

And even if it knows, ie there's a line in the G Code saying where it comes from, I would think that line could be edited to say 3D machinist or Cut 3D, no?

I'll be playing with the demo and will report the results...:rainfro:

[ger21]

I've never tried it, but I believe that you import a "toolpath file" that you can export, not the saved g-code file. Correct? With other apps, you'll only have the g-code.

[Phife]

Is V Carve going to know which app G Code is generated in? Because that's how 3d Machinist works... You import the V3M file, generate the toolpath, and then the tool path can be imported into V CArve.. Same with Cut 3D.. You import the tool path..

And even if it knows, ie there's a line in the G Code saying where it comes from, I would think that line could be edited to say 3D machinist or Cut 3D, no?

I'll be playing with the demo and will report the results...:rainfro:

You cannot import gcode with vcarve, only vectors, bitmaps, and vcarve files.

[Mountaincraft]

You cannot import gcode with vcarve, only vectors, bitmaps, and vcarve files.

yeah, looks like you're right about that.. I guess the reason I was thinking it could import G Code is because 3D machinist asks you to select the post processor like you do in VCP when exporting G Code...

For that reason, I was under the impression you could load the 3D machinist file directly into Mach3....

But that's not the case...

So no matter what, to do what I want I'll need Cut 3D...

Short of them giving me some sort of deal where I can get the main four files I need free with Cut 3D... I'm kinda stuck at a crossroads...

[ger21]

For that reason, I was under the impression you could load the 3D machinist file directly into Mach3....

If you mean the g-code from 3D Machinist, you can.

[Mountaincraft]

If you mean the g-code from 3D Machinist, you can.

Then I should also be able to load G Code into VCP, no? AFAIK, 3D Machinist only exports one type of file, doesn't it?... And if that can be loaded into Mach3, then it's G Code.. and if it can also be loaded into VCP, then VCP is accepting G Code.. Or am I totally missing something?

[ger21]

Looking at an older version of V-Carve Pro that I have installed, it would appear that you can save a job (with toolpaths) in 3D Machinist as a .v3m file, which is what you import into V Carve Pro.

So yes, you're totally missing something.

Again, I've never tried it, so don't know the exact procedure.

[Mountaincraft]

Looking at it again, there's two separate export buttons from 3DM.. one is for V3M for VCP.. And I bet the other saves as G Code...

But in VCP, looking in the import menu, I only see V3M from Cut3D or Photo Vcarve as options... (besides vector and bitmap images)

Back to square one... again...

I'm gonna fire off an e-mail to Vectric tonight to see if they can help me out on the files if I buy Cut3D.. In the mean time, I'm trying to figure out where to scrounge up some more moola...

I was getting to a point on this endeavor where I was 'planning' on less of that starvation stuff this month..(wedge)

[louieatienza]

So I would do a 'pocket' with the 1/8" bit, and then follow with a profile with the V Bit?



Do they sell those at CNC Router parts?



Oil based poly, or can water based poly be used over shellac?

Does Shellac color the wood? I haven't used the stuff since probably 7th grade... I remember it being kinda yellow in color (not necessarily a bad thing)

I was also thinking about marine spar thane... But I'm really ignorant about finishes.. I have a couple 'standards' I've used in construction over the years, and you kinda get in a habit, and don't stray much..

I have a lot of linseed oil (about 6 gallons), and was thinking of trying some of that on a few of them, but was afraid the mask wouldn't adhere well.. but maybe there's something I could coat over the linseed oil.. It has kind of a nice color to it..

But maybe that's a crazy idea...

VCarve Pro has settings for "flat area clearance tool" on the v-carve screen. It automatically generates both paths once you enter the parameters in.

It's not easy to obtain a laser that will engrave wood. You probably need about 25-30 watts; good luck finding someone to sell you one, and they're not cheap! Plus you'd have to set up the optics (lenses, mirrors) and need to move at very high speeds and acceleration.

You can pretty much use any finish over shellac. Shellac comes on different "tints." You could spray oil based poly or lacquer over linseed oil, but if spraying lacquer over linseed oil you may run into adhesion problems if you wait too long.

As far as "masking" I probably wouldn't put too much faith in it. It would probably be very difficult to prevevnt the mask from peeling when machining, or you'd have to use masking with such a strong adhesive that you'd have to sand it off anyways. And you'll muck up your bit with the adhesive from the masking.

[CarveOne]

Mountaincraft,

Vcarve Pro v6 can import dxf, dwg, eps, ai, pvc, v3d, and v3m files It can export to eps, dxf, and ai files. It can save crv files (the native file type). It generates and saves tool path gcode in many different ascii text formats for lots of CNC machine types. There are 8 versions just for use with Mach3. Metric, English, tool change, non-tool change, etc.

Mach 3 can load the gcode files created in Vcarve Pro and let you cut stuff with them.

For the price it is a power packed piece of software. Lots of capabilities built in. The next level up from Vectric is about 3.3 times the price.

CarveOne