[rokag3]

I'd bet if we dropped support for Greece and let Yugoslavia or Turkey take your country over, you'd think differently.

I have been several time in turkey . there is no hate between turkish people and greek people .If you are not sure of this you will see that turkish student and greek student often share the same places. The conflict between turkish state and greek state is old and should be observed through history .The US are not at all involved in the story .I will not say the same about Germany France and England .When the influence of those empire fade then the US take the relay.
About Cyprus the deny of justice regarding turkish cypriot by Mr. Makarios is the real trigger of the story of 1974.

Again take some time to think. Specially when obviously the result of a foreign policy are not probant.

What is the difference between you and me ?I love my family i help them as much as i can .I provide help to my 2 daughters and my 4 grand childrens . We help some of our friends who are in difficult time. I fight to grant my employees a descent living. And i do everything i can to give to my customer good and healthy food and spend a good time. I am just a sapiens sapiens and through the world i see the same . So please do not help the iraquis nor the palestinians nor the afghans and so many others .The informations you get through the media are all lies . If you feel closer from Mr. Elie Burstein than Mustafa benmohamed give personnal help invitation to study or money to create a busisness or else but do not give tank and f16.
I always say give me a system to recognise a bastard 3 feets away i buy it ! but i can affirm that such system does not exist and the english formula share on a table dinner 1/2 pound of salt to appreciate some one is the only one which work.

THE REAL WORLD IS NOT DIGITAL BUT ANALOGIC

Nothing really black nor really white do not try to simplify simple things you might make them complex

all sapiens want energy respect and love

[rokag3]

Had we not became involved in the defense of Greece as an ally, where would you and your loved ones be now?

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Greek_Civil_War


The greek "terroristen" or resistant died more for the victory than the american soldier in fact close to the ratio of the russian.
It is the greek that prevent the german to win in their offensive against russian by slowing down their action as testify by joukov and hitler .
The american did not liberate greece nor the english.
In fact it is the military success of the russian in roumania and in yugoslavia that forced the german to leave greece.
The english invade greece only to prevent the communist to take the power (the communist in greece was far to be extremist a lot of religious was with them) they are the cause of the first civil war.

You now here is a perfect example of "American hollywood culture" despite facts easy to find on books you prefer "believe" i am not a believer .

I am french living in greece. As a french i thank the american but i do not forgot that the french communist(terroristen) resistance as been directly attacked by the british and the american .

Here again at the level of the people french communist (TERRORISTEN) resistant and american soldier it was (and still not)not a shadow of agressivity . But at the upper level there was @#&&%! .

The french government is responsible of many atrocity i give you one you probably do not know.

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Setif_massacre

I am not going to say i am ashamed to be french but i am going to think what can i do me to prevent this to happen again.

"Et pendant que vos corps pourrirons, ces messieurs, dans les salons, se ferons des politesses."
Victor Hugo

TERRORISTEN :terroriste in german name given by the german occupier for the partisans and resistant

[One of Many]

I have been several time in turkey . there is no hate between turkish people and greek people .If you are not sure of this you will see that turkish student and greek student often share the same places. The conflict between turkish state and greek state is old and should be observed through history .The US are not at all involved in the story .I will not say the same about Germany France and England .When the influence of those empire fade then the US take the relay.
About Cyprus the deny of justice regarding turkish cypriot by Mr. Makarios is the real trigger of the story of 1974.

Again take some time to think. Specially when obviously the result of a foreign policy are not probant.

What is the difference between you and me ?I love my family i help them as much as i can .I provide help to my 2 daughters and my 4 grand childrens . We help some of our friends who are in difficult time. I fight to grant my employees a descent living. And i do everything i can to give to my customer good and healthy food and spend a good time. I am just a sapiens sapiens and through the world i see the same . So please do not help the iraquis nor the palestinians nor the afghans and so many others .The informations you get through the media are all lies . If you feel closer from Mr. Elie Burstein than Mustafa benmohamed give personnal help invitation to study or money to create a busisness or else but do not give tank and f16.
I always say give me a system to recognise a bastard 3 feets away i buy it ! but i can affirm that such system does not exist and the english formula share on a table dinner 1/2 pound of salt to appreciate some one is the only one which work.

THE REAL WORLD IS NOT DIGITAL BUT ANALOGIC

Nothing really black nor really white do not try to simplify simple things you might make them complex

all sapiens want energy respect and love

Great to see you have a soft side Lucien!

The point about the History between your neighboring countries was that there has been friction and conflict, which for some is still in tension. US and Greece relations have been better and worse. Our nation has spent Billions supporting your country in many facets. We are damned if we do and damned if we don't. When foreign public opinion turns against us, we should stop the foreign aid on the ungrateful SOB's!

We have been bailing out piss ant spiteful countries for eons without an ounce appreciation. Why bother? Because we must judge the difference between right and wrong as black and white. The complexity of gray areas have placed us to many times, supporting the side that ends up hating us anyways.

You say the media is all lies, but so many rely on that propaganda which forms world opinion of the US. You post 1/2 pound salt insults using some of those lies against us. The news print IS VIEWED in black and white as "for us or against us", as well as the authors bias and desire to alter public opinion regardless of the broader details. They can pick and choose the subject and place it in context to fit an image with the most emotional impact while avoiding harsh reality nor laying responsibility where it should be.

In some respects you are possibly correct. The US should wash its hands of the global reliance on our generous offer of military equipment, security, aid and hospitality. When the rest of the world falls into chaos and anarchy, its no longer our problem. We might be able to solve our internal economic problems with all that saved cash and exiled first generation immigrants. Pick a straw and maybe the next country to lead the world will do it with more integrity. I doubt it, but be careful of what you wish for.

DC

[One of Many]

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Greek_Civil_War


The greek "terroristen" or resistant died more for the victory than the american soldier in fact close to the ratio of the russian.
It is the greek that prevent the german to win in their offensive against russian by slowing down their action as testify by joukov and hitler .
The american did not liberate greece nor the english.
In fact it is the military success of the russian in roumania and in yugoslavia that forced the german to leave greece.
The english invade greece only to prevent the communist to take the power (the communist in greece was far to be extremist a lot of religious was with them) they are the cause of the first civil war.

You now here is a perfect example of "American hollywood culture" despite facts easy to find on books you prefer "believe" i am not a believer .

I am french living in greece. As a french i thank the american but i do not forgot that the french communist(terroristen) resistance as been directly attacked by the british and the american .

Here again at the level of the people french communist (TERRORISTEN) resistant and american soldier it was (and still not)not a shadow of agressivity . But at the upper level there was @#&&%! .

The french government is responsible of many atrocity i give you one you probably do not know.

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Setif_massacre

I am not going to say i am ashamed to be french but i am going to think what can i do me to prevent this to happen again.

"Et pendant que vos corps pourrirons, ces messieurs, dans les salons, se ferons des politesses."
Victor Hugo

TERRORISTEN :terroriste in german name given by the german occupier for the partisans and resistant

Thanks for the links Lucien. Interesting!

Here something else interesting.

Wiki Foreign relations of Greece

Franco-American relations

There are blood stains on every fading empire. We never learn, do we?



So, how did you end up in Greece being French?

DC

[martinw]

Dear All,
Amidst all this doom and gloom, we could do with a few glimpses of sunshine.

Who would have expected them to come from the Japan Society of Energy and Resources? Well, I suppose they are sufficiently distant from Saint Hansen to not feel the burning power of his halo ( or a burned-up NASA satellite, for that matter ).

"Japan's boffins: Global Warming isn't man-made"

Here is a website that reports their views...

http://www.theregister.co.uk/2009/02...t_translation/

My spirits have lifted.

Best wishes,
Martin

[One of Many]

Here is a report on Gallup Poll looking into public perception, beliefs and opinion on GW, while avoiding facts but tailoring the questions about the environment and Climate Change issues. You can bet how some will use this data to change the message via the media to swing public opinion back the other direction. Whether climate change is real or imagined, getting the public to believe in it and support all efforts toward that agenda will be a central theme.

I sense the reason public opinion is moving toward "exaggerated" is that people and scientist in general are coming to the realization that all the hyped urgency and fervor is based on the extremes.


GW Gallup Poll

DC

[jhowelb]

Maybe not. They might just give up entirely. After our "Spendthrift-in-Chief" gets finished with our economy and tax future even 100% of nothing is still zero!!


If there is nothing left to pillage, why bother?

[One of Many]

I guess I'd have to ask, which side is going to give up first or should I say, have no power to fight it. The side that wants the funding for their agenda won't give up seeking revenue. This is another crisis the Dictators can use to leech profits from the productive sectors.

DC

[jhowelb]

I see the "side" with no power as the common folks. The others are simply factions of the same elitist echelon and they will squabble over the dead dry bones of the producers as they are doing in the old Soviet Union.

The goose is dead, the golden eggs have been squandered and there is nothing left but for the Rapture to take the believers.

[jhowelb]

FOLLOW THE MONEY!

Wednesday, March 18, 2009
Obama climate plan could cost $2 trillion
Tom LoBianco (Contact)



President Obama's climate plan could cost industry close to $2 trillion, nearly three times the White House's initial estimate of the so-called "cap-and-trade" legislation, according to Senate staffers who were briefed by the White House.

A top economic aide to Mr. Obama told a group of Senate staffers last month that the president's climate-change plan would surely raise more than the $646 billion over eight years the White House had estimated publicly, according to multiple a number of staffers who attended the briefing Feb. 26.

"We all looked at each other like, 'Wow, that's a big number,'" said a top Republican staffer who attended the meeting along with between 50 and 60 other Democratic and Republican congressional aides.

The plan seeks to reduce pollution by setting a limit on carbon emissions and allowing businesses and groups to buy allowances, although exact details have not been released.

At the meeting, Jason Furman, a top Obama staffer, estimated that the president's cap-and-trade program could cost up to three times as much as the administration's early estimate of $646 billion over eight years. A study of an earlier cap-and-trade bill co-sponsored by Mr. Obama when he was a senator estimated the cost could top $366 billion a year by 2015.

A White House official did not confirm the large estimate, saying only that Obama aides previously had noted that the $646 billion estimate was "conservative."

"Any revenues in excess of the estimate would be rebated to vulnerable consumers, communities and businesses," the official said.

The Obama administration has proposed using the majority of the money generated from a cap-and-trade plan to pay for its middle-class tax cuts, while using about $120 billion to invest in renewable-energy projects.

Mr. Obama and congressional Democratic leaders have made passing a climate-change bill a top priority. But Republican leaders and moderate to conservative Democrats have cautioned against levying increased fees on businesses while the economy is still faltering.

House Republican leaders blasted the costs in the new estimate.

"The last thing we need is a massive tax increase in a recession, but reportedly that's what the White House is offering: up to $1.9 trillion in tax hikes on every single American who drives a car, turns on a light switch or buys a product made in the United States," said Michael Steel, a spokesman for House Minority Leader John A. Boehner. "And since this energy tax won't affect manufacturers in Mexico, India and China, it will do nothing but drive American jobs overseas."

[One of Many]

More shell games!

Using OUR funds to PAY for OUR middle class tax cuts and inefficient green energy to make the elites feel better. Speaking out of both ends, when tax cuts involve increases in spending and taxes elsewhere to fund an agenda that cannot be scientifically proven effective on the climate change debate. The direct correlation in tax cuts would be spending cuts, but that logic isn't even a consideration. It's divine inspiration to take more out of the economy in severely underhanded ways.

The results of bait and switch school of Alinski tactics! Say one thing and do another when no one is looking, none the wiser and too late to undo.........*&#@^*((^ $0b's &*(_)_*T$$!!!!!

And this isn't the only facet this exact same frightening scenario is happening in! It's an ideological pattern.........


DC

[jhowelb]

During the French Revolution a creative young Frenchman invented a machine that corrected these problems. You may have heard of him, a doctor named Guillotine.

[phoodieman]

The global warming issue is so muddled with BS it's ridiculous. It's a natural sun cycle. CO2 isn't producing the warming, The warming is producing the CO2. (Mainly from the oceans). Mans CO2 footprint is 2% at most. Not even close to what is attributed to a natural cycle. What this whole thing is about is this slimy carbon tax issue. Guess what bipedal primate emits carbon dioxide? It's a plan to make a person BORN WITH A DEBT. As soon as you start breathing you are a global meltdown contributor and are subject to a carbon tax. That is the ultimate goal. You're gonna wake up one day and ask, "How did this happen?" And your answer is going to be, "BECAUSE YOU LET IT HAPPEN". Wake the f#@k up, cut off your TV with all the BS dancing with the idiot stars the so called reality BS, Brittany Spears BS and all the media BS, and look into what's really going on.

PHoodieman

[skippy]

"And since this energy tax won't affect manufacturers in Mexico, India and China, it will do nothing but drive American jobs overseas"
Let's face it truthfully, you, me and the majority of people here are just "plebs" at the bottom of the ladder and probably not one of us trained in international economics and finance, and yet it is perfectly clear to all of us that your statement is true. That being said leaves 2 possibilities: (1) us plebs are wrong and "they" DO know how to fix things or (2) we're right and they're wrong. I'm betting on the latter being right but if that is the case then (a) "they" are stupid and don't know what they are doing or (b) they are clever and know exactly what they are doing. Once again I'm betting on the latter which for some years has led me to believe that the master plan is to cripple us all so that we fall into line with some master plan. Much as I've said I don't believe in plots, I guess I do!
Getting back to the jobs situation, just imagine if your government said "right, we all have six more months of imports and after that point no imports whatsoever except from countries of similar economic levels and in a balanced manner". i.e. neutral balance of trade. Cheap south american bananas yes but they would have to buy the equivalent in cars, planes, machinery or whatever. All of you (USA) would suffer for some time but the long term benefits for your economy would far outweight any suffering. I used the example of the USA but in reality this could apply to most economic regions.
The sad truth is that it is so obvious and yet none of this is ever going to happen. "the people should do this or that" Nah, it just aint gonna happen.

[rokag3]

(a) "they" are stupid and don't know what they are doing or
(b) they are clever and know exactly what they are doing.

(c) they are "moral person" and since they are not human they do not care about human.They just care about how to be the winner(mean get the monopoly on everything). So they are making their war and WE are the colateral dammage. Yes they are stupid from a human point of view but they follow there strategy .By the way the co2 tax is a patent of....Enron corp(LOL)
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Corporation

[fizzissist]

Al Gore is the self-proclaimed champion of climate alarmism, with James Hansen running now a close second..

To show what a hypocrite Gore is and why this is all about the money, just look at Generation Investment Management's portfolio and explain to me how it is saving the planet by reducing C02 output???


http://www.sec.gov/Archives/edgar/da...-09-000176.txt

http://www.mffais.com/institutions/125927/

Some may recall that when Gore made An Inconvenient Truth he nulled his carbon footprint by "buying" carbon credits.....in reality all he did is buy stocks in GIM....his OWN company!!!

[One of Many]

Well, I guess the only thing left, is to become an international gypsy. Run to another country when you don't like the policies of your home land and chose to do nothing to alter its course.

I take it, the New World Order has no allegiances with the cut and run crowd, after their government renders them powerless?

The leftist cabal model will leave nohwere to run too as it spreads like a virus.

But I digress…...

It is getting even harder to definitively separate the leaders from the followers, since both tend to be in each others pockets, fondling every wallet they can get their sticky hands on. There is no shame when you're on the receiving end of the money trail. The people liable and afflicted by these policies are the inconsequential losers.

The manipulation is several layers deep with a constituency to maintain the status quo. The stupider they can keep the populous with mass confusion, while undermining the "chattering class" that exposes them, the easier it is to pull off trillion dollar scams and no one can stop them.

Conflicts of interest IGNORED and ENCOURAGED

Conflicts of conscience that provoke thought and a weary eye?



DC

[jhowelb]

"My friends, we live in the greatest nation in the history of the world. I hope you'll join with me as we try to change it." Barack Obama

The Pied Piper

A pretty good summary of what has happened, and what will be soon!
There was a Pied Piper who said “We live in the greatest country in the world. Help me change it!”



*And the people said, “Change is good!”

Then he said, “We are going to tax the rich fat-cats,D……



*And the people said “Sock it to them!”

“and redistribute their wealth.”



*And the people said, “Show me the money!”

And then he said, “Redistribution of wealth is good for everybody”



*And up came Joe the plumber & he said, are you kidding me?”

And Joe’s personal records were hacked and publicized.

*And one lone reporter asked, “Isn't that Marxist policy?”

And she was banished from the kingdom!



Then someone asked, “With no foreign relations experience, how will you deal with radical terrorists?”

And the Pied Piper said, “Simple.. I’ll sit down and talk with them and show them how nice we really are and they'll forget that they ever wanted to kill us all!”

Then the Pied Piper said, “I’ll give 95% of you lower taxes.”

*And one, lone voice said, “But 40% of us don't pay ANY taxes.”

So the Pied Piper said, “Then I’ll give you some of the taxes the fat-cats pay!”

*And the people said, “Show me the money!”

Then the Pied Piper said, “I’ll tax your Capital Gains when you sell your homes!”

*And the people yawned and the slumping housing market collapsed.

And he said, “I’ll mandate employer- funded health care for EVERY worker and raise the minimum wage.”

*And the people said, “Gimme some of that!” But why should we work?

Then he said, “I’ll penalize employers who ship jobs overseas.”

*And the people said, “Where’s my rebate check?”

Then the Pied Piper actually said, “I’ll bankrupt the coal industry and electricity rates will skyrocket!”

*And the people said, “Coal is dirty, coal is evil, no more coal! But we don't care for that part about higher electric rates.”



So the Pied Piper said, “Not to worry. If your rebate isn't enough to cover your expenses, we'll bail you out. Just sign up with ACORN and your troubles are over!” Then he said, “Illegal immigrants feel scorned and slighted. Let’s grant them amnesty, Social Security, free education, free lunches, free medical care, bi-lingual signs and guaranteed housing.”

*And the people said, “Ole`! Bravo!” And they made him King!

And so it came to pass that employers, facing spiraling costs and ever-higher taxes, raised their prices and laid off workers. Others simply gave up and went out of business and the economy slowed even further. Then the Pied Piper said, “I am the Messiah and I’m here to save you! We'll just print more money so everyone will have enough!” But our foreign trading partners said, “Wait a minute. Your dollar isn't worth what it was. You'll have to pay more.”

*And the people said, “Wait a minute. That’s not fair!”

And the world said, “Neither are these other, idiotic programs you've embraced. You've become a Socialist state and a second-rate power. Now you'll play by our rules!”

*And the people said, “What have we done?”

But it was too late.

If you think this is a fairy tale, open your eyes and ears. It’s happening RIGHT NOW!

Did you know the president’s name is really an acronym…




One Big A$$ Mistake America

[rokag3]

Then someone asked, “With no foreign relations experience, how will you deal with radical terrorists?”

And the Pied Piper said, “Simple.. I’ll sit down and talk with them and show them how nice we really are and they'll forget that they ever wanted to kill us all!”

Look as you now i am not a huge partisan of Obama but please cool down a bit.
The situation you american and us european share is not the result of a socialist policy as far as i know ! The only thing that american administration understand about socialism is "privatisation of the profit and SOCIALISATION of the losses" this is not marxisme it's liberalism !
You talk about terrorism well i think bush and israel are good candidate at least this is the feeling share by most of the people outside america.
Before Obama send a positive signal to Iran he receive the confirmation by the CIA that Iran was not developping military nuclear weapons(you can check that ). In fact for the first time i have the feeling that the foreign policy is driven by and for america and not by and for israel if confirmed this is VERY new and it will reduced greatly the willing to do something by the so call terrorist now i cannot say that you are immune from the israel state terrorism they assasinated Rafik Harriri one of their friend to accused the libyans and force the libyan army to leave liban then they attack liban thank to esbolah and the christians the israeli as been defeated but at what cost ! So with the foreign politic of Obama the risk come from your "friend". In general the feeling for the american is a bit better.It is sade than you stay in Irak and in afghanistan leaving will be a good way to save big money and will convince the sceptic (which i am) that something is really changing in America.

[phoodieman]

That was a well written post. Succinct and to the point. Everyday it's terror, terror, terror from the Rupert Murdoch controlled media. Cut off your TV. Socialism hell, the US is headed toward Fascism if not already in it. RESTORE THE CONSTITUTION. End the bankinistas control over the world.

Phoodieman