[Napier]

hello,
I have been searching around alot lately and to me IH looks like it has the best cnc mill for the money. Would you guys recomend me to get it or should I just save up and buy something else? I have also been looking at cncmasters , While there big cnc mill looks nice its a little pricey for me. So as of right now I plan on going with IH. I Just want some personal feedback from users and some pictures of some of the work you guys have done with it. Thanks

[rodneydeeeee]

IH has recieved nothing but good feedback. Excellent machine, great support. A full package any machinist could ask for. Alot of shops are even starting too look at IH. Again, all great feedback speaks for it self pretty much.

[MichaelHenry]

You should also look at the Tormach, if you haven't already, and someone else in one the forums here suggests Ajax.

I've got a Tormach and am quite happy with it, but the point is to check out all of the mills in your price range and make an informed decision.

Mike

[Napier]

Do you have and pictures of work you've done with the tormach? I really want to get a machine from a company that has great customer support just incase something goes wrong or I have questions/problems.

[rodneydeeeee]

Napier,

Many users on here have IH and love the support and power that IH packs. I dont really hear much about tormach. Again, theres options out there, but IH support and feedback is as good as it comes.

[kentavv]

I have an IH CNC mill and it has been quite a learning adventure. If you don't mind not having a ready to go machine when the delivery is made this might be a good way to go. It's going to be real interesting to see what improvments are made by the new owner.

Trying to stay unbiased I would also suggest you check out the Smithy CNC machines. Someone else already mentioned Tormach.

[Randall]

If you the kind of guy who likes to put things together, IH is the way to go. Servo driven fast and can work with flood coolant. The tormack gives you ready to run system. I think by getting a kit so to speak gives you a nice machine and some savings.
Randy
PS I dont know if its me or what but smithy seems real overpriced

[philbur]

Take a look here for Tormach performance videos:

http://www.tormach.com/mfg_database.htm

Read here about what users think of Tormach support.

http://groups.yahoo.com/group/tormac...guid=239385462
http://www.cnczone.com/forums/forumdisplay.php?f=323

I'm a happy owner of a Tormach (1 year), no other connection. I was happily making chips 4 hours after opening the box. Support has been first class.

I feel you should be made aware that "rodneydeeeee" has business connections with IH and that his statement "IH has received nothing but good feedback" is blatantly untrue.:bs:

Regards
Phil

Do you have and pictures of work you've done with the tormach? I really want to get a machine from a company that has great customer support just incase something goes wrong or I have questions/problems.

[MichaelHenry]

Do you have and pictures of work you've done with the tormach?

As this is the IH forum it might be better to ask Tormach-related questions on their forum here.

Mike

[Randall]

Take a look here for Tormach performance videos:

http://www.tormach.com/mfg_database.htm

Read here about what users think of Tormach support.

http://groups.yahoo.com/group/tormac...guid=239385462
http://www.cnczone.com/forums/forumdisplay.php?f=323

I'm a happy owner of a Tormach (1 year), no other connection. I was happily making chips 4 hours after opening the box. Support has been first class.

I feel you should be made aware that "rodneydeeeee" has business connections with IH and that his statement "IH has received nothing but good feedback" is blatantly untrue.:bs:

Regards
Phil

PHIL
do you think the IH mill is a bad product or do you think that both IH and Tormack offer good solutions. Lets talk about merits and help this guy. maybe rodneydeeeee has recieved nothing but good feedback since he as been involved. Lets keep the mudslinging out of these forums are you capable of that.
Randy

[philbur]

Hi Randy.

It was not mud slinging, just a statement of fact. Possibly a fact that may make some people unhappy, but never the less a fact.

I was trying to help the original poster by giving him some links as to where he could get first information about the Tormach, from people that actually have one and also to point out that that some opinions may be influenced by a vested interest.

Regards
Phil.

PHIL
do you think the IH mill is a bad product or do you think that both IH and Tormack offer good solutions. Lets talk about merits and help this guy. maybe rodneydeeeee has recieved nothing but good feedback since he as been involved. Lets keep the mudslinging out of these forums are you capable of that.
Randy

[rodneydeeeee]

Actually, Phil, the tormach owner, as I had stated, I have not heard much about Tormach, and you've only been in business for 1 year? IH has been in business for quite a few years. Not to mention, all support is based here in the US. Not sure about support with you. Anyways, no need for you to battle me and put IH down because we all have our own input. A matter of fact, IH is recommended by me as well as Syil. Syil America is available here as well. See what the owner of Tormach is showing? Looking to argue with customers. Not a well representation.


Oh yeah, and not to mention, would you like it if someone came in your forum recomending other machines. Probally not. And I have got nothing but good feedback from IH so for you to see that is Untrue, check your self because it is indeed true.

[philbur]

Hi Rodneydeeeee, that makes things much clearer!

Oh and by the way Tormach has been in operation since 2002. Support is USA based and I did not put IH down, only your claim of 100% positive feed back.

Regards
Phil.

Actually, Phil, the tormach owner, as I had stated, I have not heard much about Tormach, and you've only been in business for 1 year? IH has been in business for quite a few years. Not to mention, all support is based here in the US. Not sure about support with you. Anyways, no need for you to battle me and put IH down because we all have our own input. A matter of fact, IH is recommended by me as well as Syil. Syil America is available here as well. See what the owner of Tormach is showing? Looking to argue with customers. Not a well representation.

[philbur]

This would imply that you don't believe the IH can stand the comparison with other machines.

Also we seem to have a use of words misunderstanding here that may explain our disageement.

For me feedback is what the user says about the product. Possibly you meant "nothing but good response from IH"

Regards
Phil

Oh yeah, and not to mention, would you like it if someone came in your forum recomending other machines. Probally not. And I have got nothing but good feedback from IH so for you to see that is Untrue, check your self because it is indeed true.

[kentavv]

As this is the IH forum it might be better to ask Tormach-related questions on their forum here.

Mike

See below for examples of what I have done with my IH CNC. Please keep in mind this it the FIRST CNC mill I have run let alone own and have been learning to use it since late November 2006 for hobby work. You can find small faults in these pieces but I think those are mainly operator error (I'm learning though) more than the machine itself. There are undoubtedly many others that have done much more impressive work. the IH CNC kit itself is pretty impressive work done by a IH CNC machine.

(BTW: Anyone know how much of the kit is done on a lathe? E.g. are the servo heatsinks bored and grooved on a lathe?)

[mcarvey]

Attached is a not-so-great picture of a cam that I made on my mill. Its nothing to special, but I couldn't have made it without a CNC mill. For the most part I do relatively simple operations like drilling/simple contours.
I haven't seen or used any of the other mills so I can only comment on the IH mill. I bought the IH mill and CNC kit about two years ago. I chose it because I needed to get a mill that I could put in a basement, I thought I could learn something from building it, Aaron seemd like a really down to earth guy, and there weren't that many other options available.
After getting the machine up and running and playing around with it I can honestly say that I'm fairly pleased with the machine. It seems to do what its advertised to do and it has saved me a lot of time and allowed me to make parts that I otherwise could not have made. I also know exactly how to assembly/fix the mill should anything ever go wrong.
First off, the quality of the components was fantastic. Nothing has broken since I've had it. I have never had any issues about the servo's being too slow or underpowered. All the components are extremely solid, and also easy to get replacements for. They don't skimp on anything. The pieces are all machined well (I was quite impressed with the heatsinks and the timing belt pulley). IH is very generous with including extra screws/spacers/etc should you need them. For the most part everything fit together, and there were only a few places where I had to modify a few of the components. I am assuming that these slight issues with the kit have been resolved by now. It is clear that IH takes high pride in their craftsmanship and choice of components. That goes a long way in my book.
Customer support was excellent. When I found that a part was made incorrectly I called up IH, and they promptly sent me a replacement. When I had a question about the ballscrews, IH answered my questions.
I was unimpressed with the general assembly instructions. Two years ago the pictures were for a slightly different mill. This caused some confustion in places, and changed the order of a step since my machine had the ribs on the bottom casting. Their instructions are good enough to assemble the kit, but they could have done a lot better in my opinion. Here are some of details that would have saved me a lot of headaches if they included in the instructions.
-I would have liked to see the torque required to turn each ballscrew (i.e. if it takes anywyere between X and Y amount of torque to move the stage you're in good shape- otherwise something is probably binding). Having never used a ballscrew before, I didn't know what to expect and these little checks could have saved me a lot of time fiddling with the ballscrews.
-I would have liked to see more reminder checks along the way (i.e. Here is how to measure the backlash on the Y axis (a bunch of pictures here.) Make sure you do this because after this point you won't be able to adjust the pre-tension on the Y nut without taking the whole machine apart) I learned this the hard way.
-I would have like to see much better instructions on how to tune the servo's rather than just including Gecko's instructions.
-I would liked to have known that I needed to open up the gecko's, and solder a wire onto the error test point BEFORE I mounted them to the heatsink.
-I would have liked to see a copy of the mach setup file emailed to me. That way all the mach pinout issues are already set up. I would have also liked to see the recommended motor acceleration parameters.
-I would have liked to see better ordering of the instructions. Drilling/tapping holes for the Y limit switch is a PITA when the X axis is on there.
-I would have liked to see certain components predrilled, such as the heatsinks. You don't have much error with those small screws and it would be really easy for IH to spotdrill them.
I realize that I'm nitpicking to some degree, but details such as these save the customer from a lot of frustration. For me, they would have made the difference between a good kit and a great kit.
Wildcat said it best- it has been quite a learning adventure, and my guess is that you'll get some of this with any kit you buy. If you are willing to put in the time and effort to assembly the kit, and if you need a large working envelope (the IH mill is pretty ridiculously sized for the price) I'd say that the IH mill/CNC kit is a great solution. You'll also probably learn alot in the process.

Wildcat- that is a pretty slick looking wrench!

-Matt

[ppsi]

This is my first post, and I will say from the start that my opinion is biased. I am anxiously anticipating delivery of a (fully assembled, turnkey) IH mill in the next 4-6 weeks. I began the process of investigating the purchase of a hobby mill after reading an article on the Tormach system in Machine Design (?). A quick google search leads you to cnczone, where there are comments in support of and bashing each of these systems. Threads which include bickering between supporters of these two groups benefit no-one. I skipped over that and looked for the real measurable differences between the two:

-If you do a true apples to apples comparison between the two, the IH mill is more expensive. (Apples to apples meaning both machines purchased as turnkey systems.) If you compare the price of a turnkey Tormach to the price of an IH kit, the numbers are close, but this is like comparing a pre-built shed to a truck load of lumber - they are not the same. I think there would be a tremendous value to assembling the IH kit myself - I enjoy this type of project, and would benefit from the intricate knowledge of the machine workings that would result, however I simply can't dedicate the time to the project right now. If you like this type of project, and have the time to do it, I believe the IH will give you a more accurate machine for your cash expense. Your overall expense however, including the value of your time, will be higher if you go with the IH kit - your time is worth something, even if your wife won't admit it.

-There are dimensional differences which really don't affect me - both of these systems have enough travel to make the parts I need, however this may be an important factor for someone else, and shouldn't be ignored.

-The stepper vs. servo debate - if both of these machines are within your price range, understanding the operational difference between stepper and servo controls should be an important part of this decision.
In simple terms, a stepper motor uses incremental moves - imagine a treasure hunt - "take 20 steps North-from there, take 12 steps West...."
A servo motor uses absolute or incremental moves, and checks each move in real time (referred to as "closed loop"). The instructions for this treasure hunt would be, "move to a point 20 steps North of your starting point- now measure to be sure you are in the right place. Okay? - Now move to a point which is 20 steps North of the starting point and 12 steps West of the starting point, and re-measure to be sure you are in the right point..." As a machine designer, I have used both steppers and servos for different applications. In general terms, the servo is more accurate and repeatable than the stepper, and you pay for that accuracy. The decision to be made here is "What degree of control accuracy do I need, and what am I willing to pay for it?

-Fit, finish, casting quality - my understanding is that both of these machines are made in China. Some people feel they got there money's worth, others don't. Is this because there are inconsistencies in the manufacturing process or different expectation from one customer to the next? I don't know. I work daily with professional machinists who have paid 5-10 times as much for their machines. I don't think it is realistic for me to expect the IH to compare to these production machines. Based on what I have seen and read, I am confident that I will be getting a good value for my money.

-Finally, support. I did not contact Tormach, so you will only get one side from me - I need to be able to convert complex surface models produced in Solidworks to machined parts, so I needed an education in CAM software, post-processing and CNC machining. Luckily I live a few hours away from the new IH headquarters and was able to visit, physically put my hands on a machine, and even run a part I had designed before placing an order. Gene from IH could not have been more helpful or accomodating in this process. As stated previously, there is a business relationship between IH and Rodneydeeee. I found this relationship to be most helpful, as Gene and Rodney worked together to "prove out" the combination of machine and software I needed, leaving me with no doubt that I was purchasing exactly what I need, and that the support would be available for the steep learning curve ahead. I honestly feel that I am purchasing from friends.

Does Tormach offer comparable support? I don't know. Why not call and find out?

I have attached a picture of a part produced on an IH mill. This includes some complex 3D geometry. There was definitely some hand work to polish the surfaces, but the IH mill did an impressive job nonetheless.

[Randall]

I cant agree with you more, well put and a fair comparison.
Randy