[riverrat]

We are looking into purchasing a wire edm.
Unfortunatly we know NOTHING! about them.
Where to start? What machine? What features?
There is one on ebay we are looking at, 1996 mitsubishi
refurbished by mitsubishi in 2002, buy it now for 22,500 (I think)
auto wire feed, 15 degree taper.
Is this a good machine?

thanks is advance
totally clueless

[riverrat]

come on guy's, don't leave me hanging like this.
surely someone has some wire edm knowledge
to pass on.

[notallhere]

Not a real experianced guy with them, but we just got a used Japax never seen one before last week. Huge amount of work to clean it all the filters were blown out and the thing looked like it had never seen any maintance in its long life. Something to look at when buying a used any kind of machine.
Do all the manuals come with it or are they missing. Its a big pluss if they do come with it. I have been able to in a week get it cutting, it took alot of reading and time to sit at it and work through all the settings but hey thats what i get paid for.
As far as is the one your looking at a good machine hey cant say, we got ours at a auction and could at least see it up close and personal so we knew what we were getting into.
Good luck!

[victorinox76]

Fanuc EDM's I have found to be ultra reliable with great generator codes. The ease of maintenance and cost per hr is great. Just my 2 cents...

[roysol]

What you need in an EDM depends a lot on what type of work you hope to do with it. What are your tolerance requirements, surface finish, work piece sizes, taper angles, production vs tooling, in house vs jobbing, etc.

In general, shops with no EDM experience who buy used machines have a very steep learning curve. If you scan older threads here, and at the couple of other active EDM specific forums, they are full of people who need manuals, technology settings, trouble shooting, programing and applications help.

This is not to discourage you from doing it, just so you go in with your eyes open. For example, if your planning on competing with EDM shops, your 1996 mits will be cutting less than 10 square inches per hour, while the current models will be cutting in the mid 30's.

If you have some more questions, fire away. (You didn't say what model Mits was on Ebay, but I run them now and have in the past, and they are decent machines for production type work that's not too fussy).

Cheers!

Roy Solomon

[riverrat]

we have farmed out over $6000.00 in simple edm work
this month alone + or - .0005, 2 dimensional stuff.
from what i understand that kind of accuracy is easy to achieve.
our market is prototype, and very small production runs with
some, but not a lot of competition, quality sells, and we sell it.
another thing, submerged or not?
our understanding on this is on a submerged unit you have to drain and
fill the tank on each part. with a non submerged machine you run a coolant
(deionized water?).
also how do you figure speeds, power, and numerous other values you need
to know?
pretty sure i'm gonna be a "wire breaking monster" for a period of time.

notallhere,
i would NEVER buy a machine without the manuals, and schematics.
gotta keep em running or they are nothing but an anchor.

thanks guys!

[rodneydeeeee]

We sell CAD/CAM and Wire EDM software. We are Dolphin CAD/CAM and can also be seen at www.cadcamconsultants.net.

Alot of customers use between one of the following...

Japax, brother, mitsibushi, sodick

All 4 are very good.

[PoppaBear10]

I ended up doing a Control retrofit on a Mits, cause the repair and cost of these machine is crazy, the mits guy wanted 6 k for ONE day of repair work. That is when I just retrofited it, (still a pain in the butt).

I retroed on Sodik, and it was much, much kinder and easier to work on.

I retrofited the machine with Mach, but, if you can find one with a working Fanuc, then it is usually worth salvaging/repairing.

OneCNC is an excellent source for Wire EDM, I use it my self and it is very easy to use with lots of usfull features.

On some of the older machines you have to watch the SCR's since they go bad after a while, filters and flow hardware is also an issue. Make sure the "Back off" circuit is working good, as well, or lots of broke wire.

Note: EDM is SLOW work, and speeds have only climbed relativly to what they used to be. Most shops around here charge about $8/hr machine time, or roughly 80/inch depending on machine speed.

S.

[roysol]

It certainly sounds like you have enough work to justify your own machine. At that rate, you could probably justify a new one, or a used one direct from the manufacturer that would come with full documentation and factory support.

You need several manuals with these machines, mechanical, programming, and technology. The technology books tell you the groups of electrical settings and offset values for various combinations of workpiece materials, cutting heights, and wire types and sizes. If you don't have this, you will waste lots of time trying to develop your own.

Most any machine that's running properly will hold the tolerances you want. Even plus or minus .0002" isn't too bad. Below that, some machines are much better than others.

Submerged cutting is the preffered method. Any time lost from draining and filling is more than offset by the faster cutting speeds. Some newer machines do not have to drain the tank to thread, and several manufacturers have concentrated on reducing non-cutting time with faster tank fills (drains are usually pretty quick) faster thread times and higher rapid schemes. I would suggest that for your type of work, none of that is particularly relevant. It is a small percentage of the total time to burn a part.

Cheers!

Roy Solomon

[matsuura]

Hi, you want to go submerged as Roy says, we have two Agie edm one is not submerge and it is day and night when cutting taper and the submerge one is cutting much faster,i would buy new ,take a look at Agie.

[riverrat]

thanks guy's, we're learning every day and don't even have one on the
floor yet! LOL!
looking at several machine's currently, who know's which one we will end
up with. after what pappabear said, probably not a mitsubishi.
looking at a hitachi, that thing is NICE!
any info on them? parts avalibility, tech support, etc?

[tomp-tag]

2d work and +-.0005 ?
get an old agie 2d,
cheap, simple, very accurate and will stay accurate because the machine tool is good.
6000$ per month? you dont have really large amounts of work so a cheap accurate but slow machine is no problem
www.techstar.com has some, or you might fine one.

some of the earliest were submerged!, just small ( 6x6 )
great learner machine

regards
TomP

[riverrat]

Thanks for the help guys, we just got a 1996 ONA prima e-400.
Big machine, low hours, great price. The guy we bought it from
had $10,000 worth of replacement boards and drive motors to
go with it, threw a transformer in the mix and will load it on
our truck, AND he is going to come to our shop for a day to
get us going.
we started talking to the company's we do work with about getting
a wire EDM, and found out there is a lot more wire work around our
area than we realized.

[mdynac]

contact EDM Network for great used wire and sinker, all come with warranty and training....

www.edmnetwork.com

[sodickappsguy]

by the looks at your tolerance range and the amount of work that you are subbing out i would go get a new Brother EDM. This is coming from a guy that works directly with a EDM company. The trouble that you are going to run into with a used machine is there will not be any technical support (or very limited) Plus you dont really know what to look at yet to tell if the machine is a heaping pile or a good machine. Alot of the used machines out there will run the tolerance you are wanting but it is hard to tell if the seals are good and if the machine was taken care of. Just cause they cleaned the inside of the machine before they cut the power off doesnt mean that there isnt a ton of trash in the system from blown filters.

As far as the programming styles Mits ,Brother, and Sodick are similar to a fanuc control so the swap over is not to bad. Agie and charmil are a different word code base and i would not touch them with a 20 foot pole cause agie and charmil merged together and EVERY ONE of the current machines sold are not going to be supported by the next IMTS cause they are going to merge the machines and make a new control. (i know this cause i talk to people at agie and charmills on a regular basis)

Bottom line is to go get a new machine and let it pay itself off in less than A year and you have full tech support and you have a warranty so while you are in a learning curve you have someone to help you.

Would say get a Sodick but it sounds like you are not needing .0001 tolerance. But if you are the AQ300L are 12x8x8 travel and go somewhere around the low 90's and the operational cost is around $7.50 and hour on .01 brass wire (not counting the operators price)

[Chad_Clark]

Thanks for the help guys, we just got a 1996 ONA prima e-400.
Big machine, low hours, great price. The guy we bought it from
had $10,000 worth of replacement boards and drive motors to
go with it, threw a transformer in the mix and will load it on
our truck, AND he is going to come to our shop for a day to
get us going.
we started talking to the company's we do work with about getting
a wire EDM, and found out there is a lot more wire work around our
area than we realized.

Do you have a Wire EDM CAD/CAM program yet. This will also make programming this machine a lot easier and faster in getting your work done?

[riverrat]

yea chad, we bought a copy of bobcad cam.
its a little more "stone age" than i'm used to, but with a little
editing it works.
been a mastercam user for about ten years, and we didn't
want to spend the $$$$$$ for an upgrade. its really
great, and powerful, but MY GOD! talk about stupid expensive.
they "being mastercam" better get their head out of thier arses,
for the money bobcad and some of these other cam companies
are getting to be what you need with a lot cheaper product.
my big ol 2 cents.

king of the boobs
da riverrat.

[edm specialist]

well sorry to reply so late. But the best edm machine would be mits. They are very operator friendly. especially if you have machinist exp.

[ramadanbelal]

I advise u to looking for AGIE wire cut machine.It is the best one